Diskussion: Telegram

Tycker Telegram förtjänar en egen tråd, inte minst eftersom utvecklingen verkar gå mot en komplett ersättare för dem andra stora sociala medier.

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Här finns bl.a. svar på frågor ang. säkerhet och kryptering. Många rörliga delar.

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Pavel Durovs channel

Telegram - slaget med Roskomnadzor
Min gamla tråd som ger bakgrund, men som är överspelad nu.

 

Pavel Durov om:

I hear Facebook has an entire department devoted to figuring out why Telegram is so popular. Imagine dozens of employees working on just that full-time.

I am happy to save Facebook tens of millions of dollars and give away our secret for free: respect your users.

Millions of people are outraged by the latest change in WhatsApp Terms, which now say users must feed all their private data to Facebook’s ad engine [1]. It’s no surprise that the flight of users from WhatsApp to Telegram, already ongoing for a few years, has accelerated.

At about 500 million users and growing, Telegram has become a major problem for the Facebook corporation. Unable to compete with Telegram in quality and privacy, Facebook’s WhatsApp seems to have switched to covert marketing: Wikipedia editors have recently exposed multiple paid bots adding biased information into the WhatsApp Wikipedia article [2].

We have also detected bots which spread inaccurate information about Telegram on social media. Here are the 3 myths they are pushing:

Myth 1. “Telegram’s code is not open-source”. In reality, all Telegram client apps have been open source since 2013 [3]. Our encryption and API are fully documented and have been reviewed by security experts thousands of times. Moreover, Telegram is the only messaging app in the world that has verifiable builds both for iOS and Android [4]. As for WhatsApp, they intentionally obfuscate their code, making it impossible to verify their encryption and privacy.

Myth 2. “Telegram is Russian”. In fact, Telegram has no servers or offices in Russia and was blocked there from 2018 to 2020 [5]. Telegram is still blocked in some authoritarian countries such as Iran, while WhatsApp and other “supposedly secure” apps have never had any issue in these places.

Myth 3. “Telegram is not encrypted”. Every chat on Telegram has been encrypted since launch. We have Secret Chats that are end-to-end and Cloud Chats that also offer real-time secure and distributed cloud storage [6]. WhatsApp, on the other hand, had zero encryption for a few years, and then adopted an encryption protocol funded by the US Government [7]. Even if we assume that the WhatsApp encryption is solid, it’s invalidated via multiple backdoors and reliance on backups [8].

In 2019 alone, Facebook spent almost 10 billion dollars on marketing [9] (I guess this includes paid bots on Wikipedia and other sites).

Unlike Facebook, Telegram doesn't spend any money, let alone billions of dollars, on marketing. We believe that people are smart enough to choose what is best for them. And, judging by the half a billion people using Telegram, this belief is justified.

[1] – WhatsApp Gives Users Ultimatum – Share Data with Facebook or Lose Access
[2] – In December 2020, the Wikipedia article about WhatsApp had the label “This article may have been created or edited in return for undisclosed payments, a violation of Wikipedia's terms of use”. Related investigation is discussed here.
[3] – Telegram Source Code
[4] – Reproducible Builds for Telegram Apps
[5] – On Digital Resistance in Russia
[6] – On Telegram Encryption
[7] – U.S. Government Funded The WhatsApp Encryption
[8] – Why WhatsApp Will Never Be Secure
[9] – Facebook Marketing Spending from 2010 to 2019
771.0K viewsedited Jan 8 at 20:33

 

Kan du fixa Signal tråden? Taggen är probleme, inte diskussion. Alltså kan ni göra ett inlägg i bloggen? Senaste dagarna har Facebook användning rasat och Signal toppar i Appstore och Play.

 

Verkar vara en högintressant innovation för vissa företag, svårt för mig att bedöma så här långt.


Voice Chats Done Right

Today, Telegram groups get an entire new dimension with Voice Chats – persistent conference calls that members can join and leave as they please. Our 12th update in 2020 brings them to you just in time for remote Christmas carols.

Voice Chats
Any Telegram group can now become a voice chat room that is always on. Voice Chats run in parallel to existing text and media-based communication, adding a live layer of ephemeral talk to the group. They can be used as virtual office spaces for teams or informal lounges for any community.

While Voice Chats are not group calls, they can achieve similar goals – at the same time offering flexibility instead of old school scheduling. In larger groups, they also provide serendipitous opportunities for talking to people.

 

Durov om framtidsplaner.
Nog är Telegram med Durov i ett rätt unikt läge.

As Telegram approaches 500 million active users, many of you are asking the question – who is going to pay to support this growth? After all, more users mean more expenses for traffic and servers. A project of our size needs at least a few hundred million dollars per year to keep going.

For most of Telegram’s history, I paid for the expenses of the company from my personal savings. However, with its current growth Telegram is on track to reach billions of users and to require appropriate funding. When a tech project reaches this scale, typically there are two options – start earning money to cover the costs, or sell the company.

Hence the question – which path will Telegram take? I’d like to make a few points to clarify our plan:

1. We are not going to sell the company like the founders of Whatsapp. The world needs Telegram to stay independent as a place where users are respected and high-quality service is ensured. Telegram must continue to serve the world as an example of a tech company that strives for perfection and integrity. And, as the sad examples of our predecessors show, that is impossible if you become part of a corporation.

2. Telegram is here to stay for a long time. We began developing our apps for our personal use over 8 years ago and have come a long way since then. In the process, Telegram changed the way people communicate in several aspects – encryption, functionality, simplicity, design, speed. This journey has just started. There’s much more we can – and will – bring to the world.

3. In order to make points 1 and 2 possible, Telegram will begin to generate revenue, starting next year. We will do it in accordance with our values and the pledges we have made over the last 7 years. Thanks to our current scale, we will be able to do it in a non-intrusive way. Most users will hardly notice any change.

4. All the features that are currently free will stay free. We will add some new features for business teams or power users. Some of these features will require more resources and will be paid for by these premium users. Regular users will be able to keep enjoying Telegram – for free, forever.

5. All parts of Telegram devoted to messaging will remain ad-free. We think that displaying ads in private 1-to-1 chats or group chats is a bad idea. Communication between people should be free of advertising of any sort.

6. In addition to its messaging component, Telegram has a social networking dimension. Our massive public one-to-many channels can have millions of subscribers each and are more like Twitter feeds. In many markets the owners of such channels display ads to earn money, sometimes using third-party ad platforms. The ads they post look like regular messages, and are often intrusive. We will fix this by introducing our own Ad Platform for public one-to-many channels – one that is user-friendly, respects privacy and allows us to cover the costs of servers and traffic.

7. If Telegram starts earning money, the community should also benefit. For example, If we monetize large public one-to-many channels via the Ad Platform, the owners of these channels will receive free traffic in proportion to their size. Or, if Telegram introduces premium stickers with additional expressive features, the artists who make stickers of this new type will also get a part of the profit. We want millions of Telegram-based creators and small businesses to thrive, enriching the experience of all our users.

This is the Telegram way.

It will allow us to keep innovating and keep growing for decades to come. We will be able to launch countless new features and welcome billions of new users. While doing that, we will remain independent and stay true to our values, redefining how a tech company should operate.
1.1M viewsDec 23, 2020 at 09:52

 

Den är suverän har använt telegram i många år, bara den lilla detaljen att messa sig själv och du har synkat det på alla enheter är gud värd för mig

 

Samma [emoji846][emoji106]

 

Jag ser Telegram och Signal som ganska lika.
Vad är skillnaden däremellan? Signal kan köra videosamtal vet jag. Hur är det med Telegram?

 

Telegram har också det.

Skillnaden, som jag har märkt, är att många utvecklare har kommunikation med sina användare där, och skickar .APK mm, har inte sett det på Signal [emoji846]

 

Detta är nyckeln till Durovs implementering, imho förstås.
"Only the paranoid survive"

Q: Do you process data requests?
Secret chats use end-to-end encryption, thanks to which we don't have any data to disclose.

To protect the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption, Telegram uses a distributed infrastructure. Cloud chat data is stored in multiple data centers around the globe that are controlled by different legal entities spread across different jurisdictions. The relevant decryption keys are split into parts and are never kept in the same place as the data they protect. As a result, several court orders from different jurisdictions are required to force us to give up any data.

Thanks to this structure, we can ensure that no single government or block of like-minded countries can intrude on people's privacy and freedom of expression. Telegram can be forced to give up data only if an issue is grave and universal enough to pass the scrutiny of several different legal systems around the world.

To this day, we have disclosed 0 bytes of user data to third parties, including governments.

 

Signal har en bättre VoIP tack vare Opus och en konstant bitrate för säker anslutning. Telegram har valfri kryptering.

 

Kört Telegram i snart 5 år, mycket nöjd.

 

Durov har erfarenheter som ger anledning att vara paranoid.

Yasha Levine intervjuar Durov.

(Yasha Levine arbetade tillsammans med Mark Ames och Matt Taibbi i Moskva på tidningen "The eXile" innan de blev bortjagade av Putin när han hade konsoliderat sin makt tillräckligt.)

Yasha Levine
September 2017
The Crypto- Keepers

". . . If the FBI was so persistent and pushy with Telegram—going as far as trying to bribe its employees while they are on a short business trip—then what does the U.S. government do to companies permanently based in America? “I can’t imagine myself or anyone else running a privacy-oriented app in that environment. They may start their information requests with data related to terrorism and then gradually widen it to who knows what.” . . . "

 

Kör även jag Telegram och det känns som det har mer potential än signal att ta över efter whatsapp.

Verkar vara väldigt få som kör signal. Nu gäller det bara att få mina kontakter att köra telegram.

 

Telegram är bra, whatapp är ju bara skit nu när dom ägs av google.

 

Har han inte pratat 2020. Kollade hans Twitter och han är inte så aktiv. Channels är social media, kryptering borde vara obligatorisk och dom borde tillåta en AUDIT om säkerhet.

 

Varför ska Durov skriva på Twitter?

Durov's Channel ✔
I’ve been taking part in the discussion in the comments and answering questions. Here are some of the responses:

On Apple-Google censorship
View: https://t.me/durovschat/518801

On making server-side code open
View: https://t.me/durovschat/515221

On a privacy-conscious ad platform
View: https://t.me/durovschat/527441

On US-based encrypted apps
View: https://t.me/durovschat/519187

On encryption vs. usability when using Secret Chats vs Cloud Chats
View: https://t.me/durovschat/527081

On maximising security of communication Durov's Chat
365.4K viewsJan 10 at 19:21